diet inquiry according to health

nksunshine27

Hi ya'll was quite sure what to title this but i'm currently in discussion with my father in law and sever other "healthy eating" people, the problem i'm having is all their "studies" say eat chicken and veggies and fruit. That red meat is bad for you, ie beef and that your supposed to minimize your intake of those if not eat them at all. i'm finding their "studies " and information are from what they have herd drs say about store bought beef and such, but my question is i don't eat beef. i eat deer, elk, bear, so would they say the same precautions in their studies about wild game as red meat?

I hope i said all this right to have ya'll understand the question thanks friends

Jens the Beekeeper

@nksunshine27 I am No nutrition expert but game meat is as far as I know the healthier red meat. It is low in fat, raised completly organic 😉. Fully grass feed beef is also something different than standard store bought red meat. And as always moderation and balance is the best way.

herbantherapy

This seems like a strange take to me. Why anyone would argue that store bought chicken (typically typically raises inhumanely) is better than store bought beef (also generally raised without integrity) is beyond me.

If I were you I would get some clarifying answers. Are they putting the chicken vs beef on the same playing field? Organic, free-range, small farm raised animals or equally pumped full of hormones on a mono-diet?

What is their opinion about WHY red meat is bad for you and chicken is good?

As for you...it is YOUR BODY. You know what works best in YOUR body. Every body is different. If red meat (game or beef) gives you energy and strength then let no one deter you from your personal food choices.

Yes we are all similar in the fact that our bodies run more efficiently when they are filled whole organic foods that occur in nature opposed to filled with artificial or processed sugars, grains and meat. Of course a tree ripened apple out of your backyard is more healthy than a truck ripenEd orange carried thousands of miles in a gas guzzling truck sprayed with pesticides and fungicides. There are healthy and unhealthy choices to make within even the most pristine diet ideas. I think our foods choices need to not only reflect our personal ethics, budgets and preferences but also the impact on the planet and the lands and the source of our food too.

Jens the Beekeeper

@herbantherapy very well said. I can't agree more.

LaurieLovesLearning

https://community.thegrownetwork.com/discussion/comment/854204#Comment_854204

Living in a farming community, I can confidently say that wild meat is very rarely organic. Wild = organic is a widely believed myth. It could only be so if the animals' range was nowhere close to any synthetic chemical application areas, including large fields & pastures to small gardens & lawns.

Wild game may still have antibiotics from waterways & watering areas & will still have chemical contamination from sprayed fields. They will also still have eaten GMO & also sprayed foods from the fields. Even non-GMO is usually synthetically chemical sprayed, unless organically certified. The only true difference from feedlot raised is that they are free to roam.

I do somewhat agree with above comments about how grassfed is better than grain fed. Let me explain my viewpoint...grain fed has somehow come to include soy & corn. The original meaning of grain fed used to mean things like wheat, oats, barley...the grass like crops. First, they are not GMO. Secondly, in their unsprayed form, they are quite beneficial for the healthy growth of the animal. However, some breeds do better on grains, some on grass...and some thrive on weeds where both others would become malnourished.

The other issue with the grain fed term is that it is certainly easier to feed any type of grain (including the modern additions of corn & soy...GMO at that) than grass or hay in an unhealthy, cramped feedlot setting. Although, "hay" feeding can now be done in a large setting as this as green feed or silage (both are extremely popular) and still be sold as grass fed.

Pastures can also be sprayed to control certain weeds & brush, so grass fed isn't always fully organic either.

As far as low in fat (domestic vs. wild), that doesn't always hold true. Many domestic breeds of pig, cattle, etc., have been developed that are extremely lean, as lean as grass raised bison (beware, it can be feedlot raised too). The concern with fat is usually the myth of fat makes you fat, & about the chemicals stored within any fat when the animal is conventionally raised. When you cook these chemicals within the fat, it can become altered & change into yet other compounds.

Both white meat (poultry) & red meat animals (beef) can be raised poorly, or naturally. Both can have chemicals stored within their meat & fat. Pitting chicken vs. beef usually comes down to a perception of types & amounts of fat...but both can carry chemical components if fed improperly. There is also a politically driven misperception that chicken is better because less space is used in their production & they don't fart, so it is better for the environment. 🙄 The cow farts=methane=climate change thing is so overdone.

When I hear "studies," I think, who is paying for these studies; who is financially benefitting from them? What environmental groups or other groups are they trying to please with these studies? Do they have an agenda?

A balanced diet is always the best idea. I think to have properly fed & unmedicated poultry & beef is important. Minimalizing/eradicating chemical usage is important too. This is why the grow your own movement & The Grow Network exists. You grow it, you know it. 😉

I will quit now, as when I go back to shorten this, it tends to get longer...🤐

Torey

@Laurie Very well said!!!

Karin

Very true @Laurie - another difference between grain-fed and grass-fed beef is the type of fat they produce, as grain-fed tend to have more Omeg6 fats from the grains in their meat, while grass-fed have more of the good Omega-3 fatty acids.

Check out Diana Rogers at sustainabledish.com - she has a lot of good research there and is making a movie on sustainable meat eating.

LaurieLovesLearning

@kmartin.mail What do you want to bet that those Omega-6 findings are from the mighty "grains" of soy & corn.

I have nothing solid to base this particular idea on, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Whew! At least this post was short! Haha

Karin

@Laurie I don't need to bet - its definitely been proven that the soy and corn feed gives higher Omega-6 fatty acid profiles in ruminants. :)

Desiree

@Laurie, Very well said and thought out. I agree with your comment regarding the "studies". It is critical that we use our own process of determining fact from fiction, scare tactics from education. It seems that these studies always can be traced to an industry with an agenda to promote they product, be it, food, medicine, etc. We are supposed to believe all the hype and run to buy what they are selling!

Momma Mo

Just look at past "studies" that are bogus: eggs are bad for you, coconut oil and palm oil are bad for you, all fat is bad for you, and modern bread and grains what you should eat the most. This advice has made people very obese and sick. Eat what make you feel good and healthy and stay away from what make you feel low energy and makes you sick!

sswoodsva

Reading all the comments. I agree with eating for what makes you feel good. If somenone is not looking at their nutrition they could easily eat donuts because it makes them feel good - not making the proper connection. Long term you will know if you need red meat. The comments have given you the information that all red meat isn't equal. Buy the best you can.

Also even though grass fed beef cost more, I find I get more for my $ because it is lower in fat, thus there is more meat per pound.

LaurieLovesLearning

I would like to add one other thing on chicken vs. red meat.

It is interesting to me how some people need red meat. Both my husband & one son need it or they become extremely tired & lethargic. My son's legs actually hurt so badly, if he doesn't get enough, that he doesn't want to walk & wants his feet on a stool to ease his pain when he sits.

Chicken (and fish!) is certainly not the same as it doesn't give quite enough of what they need. They enjoy the flavor and can have it occasionally with no problems, but something is missing that red meat delivers.

Ooh, on the doughnut thought...Until I visited the US years ago, I didn't know that it was a breakfast food. I enjoy eating them, but that for breakfast was mind blowing and for me, actually nauseating. That's too much grease & sugar first thing in the morning for this tummy.

nksunshine27

@Laurie

Living in a farming community, I can confidently say that wild meat is very rarely organic. Wild = organic is a widely believed myth. It could only be so if the animals' range was nowhere close to any synthetic chemical application areas, including large fields & pastures to small gardens & lawns.

Wild game may still have antibiotics from waterways & watering areas & will still have chemical contamination from sprayed fields. They will also still have eaten GMO & also sprayed foods from the fields. Even non-GMO is usually synthetically chemical sprayed, unless organically certified. The only true difference from feedlot raised is that they are free to roam.

This here is not true of all wild game where a lot of people hunt here in idaho is not pastures or near crops most of our deer elk live in the mountains and bear definitely do

I'm doing more research as to why this particular person finds that we arent supposed to eat red meat. the only thing i can find is "scientist and their studies show that it Supposedly causes heart disease, and cancer and colon cancer, i realize this persons theories are flawed cause Harvard came out with a study that said this is not entirely true now.

LaurieLovesLearning

@nksunshine27 That is great! You are very fortunate to live in such an area. Many people don't have that great privilege. I envy the clean air you most likely have in summer too. So very much! You are blessed.

In the prairies, when people say wild is organic, you know that is just not true here because there is no place an animal ranges that will be chemical free....maybe really far (many hours) north, in the northern Ontario bush, or in the Rockies (like your area), but not here in the plains. There is just too much here that contaminates. We have deer, elk, moose, black bear, some antelope & of course, bison on farms or sanctuaries. Even close to a protected park or on organic land, those wild animals do go in & out on a regular basis.

There is most likely some truth to the study that you first mentioned. If there were chemicals in the meat that was used, those chemicals (not the meat) could very well cause those cancers, especially if cooked at too high of a heat or in a way that will change it more. Just like the red meat/barbequing smoke studies...remember that noise? My additional questions were, what did they cook it over, in, etc. Nobody will zero in on any of those details, but just lump it all together & have the mantra that all red meat is bad. This will be picked up by special interest groups that will benefit. There is a lot of fearmongering.

So then, regular people hear "red meat is bad" and don't look into the details of the studies. They are merely parroting what they heard and lump all of the red meat together as bad without thinking further. I think this is what you are dealing with.

People do that with milk too, but have they looked into properly fed raw dairy vs. what conventional dairy is? I learn more about its alterations (from those in the industry) all the time. It is horrible what is done, right from the very start with the feed & supplements all the way to the shelf. It is amazing just how much is altered. It is no longer real dairy as God intended, so it is no wonder it causes issues. Nobody questions almond milk safety (because dairy is bad), but they should. Details don't fully support this view as better, and it is better than what (conventional/properly fed raw?). I suspect grass type grains are vilified in the same way. It's all in the details.

I would like to see a fully disclosed study on truly organic red meat (clean domestic or uncontaminated wild), cooked properly, to show if it is people messing with it that makes it bad. I suspect that the latter is the case and the meat as it was intended, it just fine.

Could you share a link to the Harvard study? If you can post other information as you find it, that is also welcomed.

Your opponents might see your newfound studies as flawed, ironically enough. In the end, all you can really do is encourage your opponents to question details in any study. They might or might not choose to do so as it is hard to change set minds. Just plant the seed and wait to see if it might grow.

lmrebert

I read something... I wish I knew where I read it but they did studies and it showed the white meat caused more inflammation than red, red meat may cause more issues or risk factors with colon cancer etc. The blue zone people that have been studied either don’t eat any meat at all or only up to 2 servings PER WEEK. Animals that are happy, healthy, unstressed, eating what it should be eating are the only ones that we should consume, and not too often is best. I see so much illness and disease and when people go on a mostly plant based diet they’ve even reverse insulin dependent diabetes... if you think about it we are similar to the plant world so when we ingest the plant world it more easily assimilates with out body

dimck421

I read the rules again, regarding posts, but may have overlooked the one regarding books. If stating the name of a book is not acceptable, I understand if this response vanishes. After having extensive testing for a list of health issues, my FIL's gastroenterologist suggested he enter the way of eating as outlined by Steven R. Gundry, MD. He wrote The Plant Paradox. In short, no sugar, no wheat flour, eat certain vegs and avoid a list of others. Eat meats, if they are pasture raised and finished (both chicken and beef). He points to lectin as being a cause of ailments. The way of eating addresses digestive issues, autoimmune issues, cardiac, and a number of other health concerns. His health improved within three weeks. My outline was quite simplified, but gave a general idea of Dr. Gundry's thoughts.