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Interesting Article from GreenMedInfo — The Grow Network Community
Pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.

- Haruki Murakami

Interesting Article from GreenMedInfo

kbmbillups1kbmbillups1 Posts: 412 ✭✭✭✭

Comments

  • LaurieLovesLearningLaurieLovesLearning Moderator Manitoba, Canada 🍁 zone 3, PrairiesPosts: 3,082 admin

    @kbmbillups1 My thoughts below are not directed at you. Thank you for posting the article, as it does have some good food for thought.

    As I went through it, I noted something important that should be stated, and how this article (and those reports that are in conflict) can be used as a learning tool to demonstrate the manipulative power of stats...for either "side" on any topic.

    This article is a very clear demonstration of how stats can be used to prove any point of view, whether he is actually right or wrong, & whether all the agencies mentioned are right or wrong.

    On a similar note, one thing that we have noted, and is even confirmed if you listen carefully to wording used on some newscasts, is that if someone dies from anything and the tests show that they also test positive for Covid-19, that they die "as a result of the virus" whether it was the virus or the underlying condition. This then goes on their record of death and directly onto stats charts.

    I have wondered too if some of these supposedly vibrant & healthy people who died, that some spoke of, actually had something else going on health wise, but nobody was aware of it.

    We are sure that both of these factors are skewing stats.

    Anyway, no matter what, I will still enforce proper washing of hands in our household as it is a good practice, and will still do the social distancing thing when necessary. We are staying home as much as possible as well. These things are only temporary and really, not all that difficult to do.

    Now back to my thoughts on the article. This one does bring up good points, but personally I am hesitant to put a lot of unquestioning faith into GMI since I have once again recently seen him skillfully twist information (put out misleading/false information) for his personal financial gain. I did write him about it and questioned the misleading info & tactics, but I don't expect a reply.

    Putting out misleading/false information for personal financial (or new follower) gain is always one of my big red flags when determining who is a trusted source. Sadly, he is not alone in doing so. These tactics are rampant online in many "fields" and on many platforms. I have seen this in the past from him. It was not Covid related, but about other subjects. Considering, I will always approach his articles & other output with caution and would urge others to do the same.

  • kbmbillups1kbmbillups1 Posts: 412 ✭✭✭✭

    @LaurieLovesLearning I knew GMI was controversial because the email I get their news letters to will not allow it through anymore but I had no idea it would be so controversial here as well. I wasn't trying to cause controversy or get this site in any trouble ...just thought and discussion.

    It seems all of the natural health folks and those provoking thought are controversial these days- more so than ever before. I think that's why most of them have gone to Brighteon and MeWe. Also, I don't know of anyone of these people not selling something. They are all spreading their ideas and knowledge but also sell supplements, summits, books, etc. To me having differing opinions brings about debate so people can think about it and decide for themselves what they think. I don't think anyone should believe what anyone tells them. They should decide for themselves by educating themselves in whatever area the discussion is about. Isn't that the American way? Or at least it used to be until recently.

    A friend of mine told me the other day that she thinks the truth is somewhere in between the majority and the minority. The more I think about it the more I think she's right. She's lived a lot longer than me as she's in her upper 70's and is a lot wiser with more life experience.

    As I write this my daughter is laying on the couch crying b/c she misses her friends and all of the senior activities she's looked forward to for so many years as well as the lead part she was about to have in their school musical. She says video chat isn't the same. There was no warning that school would not go back and be online for the rest of the year so they didn't even get to say goodbye. I know it's no big deal to most people and probably sounds selfish but it makes me so sad.

    My husband had to be in line this morning at 7 am to get toilet paper. Someone who works at the store told me yesterday that it would be gone in 30 minutes. He was lucky to get a pack! He said she was right.

    I hope everyone is fairing well in their homes and has found something to keep them busy.

  • LaurieLovesLearningLaurieLovesLearning Moderator Manitoba, Canada 🍁 zone 3, PrairiesPosts: 3,082 admin
    edited April 3

    @kbmbillups1 No need to worry. I know your intentions are good. 🙂 I just figured that the site warranted a posted caution. The link will remain available here as long as the article is available there. Productive discussion is encouraged.

    My general caution is for impulsive folks (who will visit here) that don't consider anything further than the first thing in front of their face and take that as full truth without investigating further. I know a few people like that. The caution to not take everything from any one site at face value is mainly for those impulsive types...and the youth that also might be reading and not think of considering all information carefully, as this site is available to many age groups. I would encourage these folks to look carefully at all sides, weigh what they read, ask questions, research carefully and go from there. Pursuing truth in spite of all the mess in whatever subject they run across. It is usually in there somewhere.

    This article is a really good example...even by the author's own admission...that stats can prove anything, as he is demonstrating how they can mislead & so I thought it was worth mentioning.

    Hopefully I am more clear in my meaning this time. Sometimes being clear in internet postings is complicated.

    Your friend sounds wise. She sounds like she encourages researching & careful thought. This is what I am talking about. 👏

    Feeling the way you & your daughter are feeling is totally okay. It is sad. I wish the situation was different. My kids are missing important things too. It is normal to be disappointed over missed things. It is a type of mourning.

    I am glad that you were able to get toilet paper. I am sure that we will all breathe a huge sigh of relief when this is all done.

  • shllnzlshllnzl Southwestern UtahPosts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭

    @LaurieLovesLearning I think you do a good job being diplomatic about some of these issues and cautions. You use more words than I would (except the spoken word) but that is probably a good thing. It is my experience that my brief, journalistic influenced writing is sometimes missing small details that help others to understand. Diplomatic subjects require that everyone understand the issues in exactly the same way. So keep up the good work.

  • shllnzlshllnzl Southwestern UtahPosts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭

    @kbmbillups1 I sympathize with your daughter's loss of social activities. The young have shorter goals and less experience to deal with disappointments. She is to be commended for staying in and obeying social distancing rules. I have two young relatives that have gone rogue and run out for social activities. One was accepted back into the home and the other was told if she left that she would need to find somewhere else to stay for 14 days. Only time will show the consequences of this behavior.

  • LaurieLovesLearningLaurieLovesLearning Moderator Manitoba, Canada 🍁 zone 3, PrairiesPosts: 3,082 admin
    edited April 3

    Oh, how I wish I used less words, but it is sadly not something I was blessed with. 😬

    Thank you for your kind words. I am humbled.

  • SherryASherryA Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    I think getting hysterical helps nobody. But we should stay home as much as possible, and practice social distancing if we need to go out. Sounds like we should probably cover our faces if we go out. If it can save a life, why wouldn't you do it?

  • shllnzlshllnzl Southwestern UtahPosts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭

    @figsagee I am scheduled for a routine follow-up with my cancer doctor. I called to confirm whether the appointment was still good. I had planned to wear a mask if I was going to be around people who are receiving chemo, despite the fact that I have been isolated with no symptoms. (My doctor will call me to ask her questions. I expect she will either order tests or schedule a real visit to happen in a couple of months.)

    I agree with you -- we need to protect others from even a tiny possibility of illness.

  • seeker.nancy - Central Texasseeker.nancy - Central Texas Posts: 707 ✭✭✭✭

    I think that "truth" may be similar to life in that there is no black and white, only shades of gray. No study can possibly take everything into consideration. That being said, some are designed in a way that will prove the point they think is correct. And results...they can be so skewed in their interpretation. Years ago a person was hammering me with the "results" of a study. I told them I would need to read how the study was conducted before I would accept those "results". Good discussion here everyone!

  • kbmbillups1kbmbillups1 Posts: 412 ✭✭✭✭

    @shllnzl Wow! We have been on a county shelter in place with a number to call to turn folks/businesses in that are not obeying for several weeks and now we have it state wide. They've made it where the sheriff's department can now physically shut down businesses deemed non essential. Also the police are giving out citations & jail time to those who don't comply. A lot of people are afraid to leave their homes. I guess the new rules are working. So, even if my daughter wanted to go somewhere there is nowhere to go other than the grocery store and work. She works at Chickfila a couple days a week. None of her friends are allowed to leave home expect to go to work or the grocery store as well. We're on spring break so it's really boring for the kids. Next week digital learning starts back so the kids will have something to take their minds of the boredom and the thoughts of missed activities.

    I hope you don't have to wait too long to see your doctor. Everyone is canceling appointments right now. My mother in law was supposed to see her doctor for the swelling in her legs but that was rescheduled too.

  • SherryASherryA Posts: 279 ✭✭✭

    @shllnzl Good luck with the doctor. 💓💓

  • shllnzlshllnzl Southwestern UtahPosts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭

    @kbmbillups1 @figsagee Thanks for your good wishes. I don't expect any problems and what could be easier than a doctor's phone call?

    I truly hope that we have changed medical practices forever and that all quick care clinics in the future will have a drive up option for flu victims. There have been times in the past where I was ill and didn't go to the clinic because I didn't want to sit for hours upright in a chair.

  • teachercarynteachercaryn Cook at Wahlburgers The Frozen Tundra in the Northern MidwestPosts: 218 ✭✭✭

    In my opinion ‘Social Distancing’ truly ought to be called ‘Physical Distancing’ due to we continue talking and communication with one another, however, we need to stand at least six feet away from one another.

  • Megan VenturellaMegan Venturella Posts: 288 ✭✭✭

    @LaurieLovesLearning I'm curious to know what GMI has done that was unethical. I've followed them for a long time and that really surprises me. I've always found it to be a great resource.

  • KarinKarin New ZealandPosts: 272 ✭✭✭

    I have followed GMI for a long time, and have found their information database to be very useful in the past. However, I have found recently that they are less informative lately and more promoting products. Their articles are shorter and not as good/neutral as they used to be. I find this quite a sad development, as it was a good place to go to find information and links to studies that weren't necessarily conventional medicine.

  • LaurieLovesLearningLaurieLovesLearning Moderator Manitoba, Canada 🍁 zone 3, PrairiesPosts: 3,082 admin

    @Megan Venturella It had to do with dairy alternatives being safer & healthier than the real thing, which is a popular misconception in society today mainly due to excessive marketing. It flies in the face of individual self sufficiency to support a huge money hungry industry.

    There were some false statements vilifying cows' milk (lumping all milk as bad and full of junk, which is untrue), & these same statements are ones that have been proven wrong. There were also statements about almond milk and soy milk (the ones that I remember specifically) praising them as if they are perfectly safe & have no issues at all (hear the angels sing), which is not true. The nutritional content is nowhere close if you want to consider that, there is GMO, excessive chemical use and more done in this industry as well that isn't brought up for consideration because that will not sell the product. These things, if presented, do not make the alternative product healthier nor more desirable. All of this article was skewed to point to the presented product as being the perfect solution. It would be a no-brainer to buy it.

    I was looking for what I wrote back, but it was on a form, so I can't give more/additional specific information.

    I also don't remember anymore what my first issue with the site was as it was many, many years ago. I just remember that it was enough to show me not to trust the source.

    I am certainly not against natural, but I am against promoting false information for personal gain.

  • LaurieLovesLearningLaurieLovesLearning Moderator Manitoba, Canada 🍁 zone 3, PrairiesPosts: 3,082 admin

    @kmartin.mail I have found that is the case with many formerly trusted sources. I have to be more careful all the time. I think where the issue comes in is with bloggers who do not live the things that they write about, they don't care about their subject more than filling a "get paid for it" space, and aren't careful about their sources. Many of them don't care anymore about researching their subject well to present accurate information and don't reference many (or any) sources. Sometimes it is a matter of taking incorrect internet sources and combining them, or outright plagiary. It doesn't take long in those cases for content to become accepted as truth when the exact same content is seen across multiple sources & platforms, and echoed by networks of people in the same field.

    As well, a short article is a quick turn around article, it won't pay as well and the writer won't spend the same amount of time or effort on it.

    When it comes to promoting products, it adds another level of bad.

    If you consider the greater education system (K through degree) & society, you will find that reading level & comprehension has decreased over time. This will factor into it all as well. My late grandpa said, "The smarter we get, the more dumb we become." I have come to agree with that statement.

    So many factors play into it.

  • shllnzlshllnzl Southwestern UtahPosts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭

    I am also wondering if, as the organization gets bigger, research and verification are farmed out to others making the original, trusted source more remote from the information.

  • toreytorey Posts: 2,083 admin

    I have to agree with @LaurieLovesLearning on this one. GreenMedInfo used to publish articles with lots of links to studies and clinical trials but lately (and more often) it seems to be shorter, more news-grabbing articles with ads and links for books and online summits. The latest correspondence was simply a sales pitch for some rather expensive instant coffee boasting about its immune defence properties. Their database is huge and takes a tremendous amount of sifting through to get to the better, more reliable sources of information. They list small, inconclusive studies as well as the larger, more comprehensive ones that give verifiable results.

    It is a struggle, especially for people who might be new to herbal or natural medicines and treatment, to find good, unbiased information but there are sources out there. You might just have to dig a bit deeper to find them. Personally, I like the American Botanical Council. They are not for profit (an indicator of an un-biased source) and have links to the German Commission E plant monographs. Their information is well researched and documented. You can sign up for their newsletter. http://abc.herbalgram.org/site/PageServer

  • toreytorey Posts: 2,083 admin

    I should add here that I will continue to subscribe to the newsletter, just to see what is the latest thing that is being promoted. I sometimes get asked from clients about products or treatments that have become fads or internet sensations and I like to be educated on them. And sometimes there is a bit of useful info.

    That being said, we need to continue to be vigilant with regards to ensuring that we have the best possible information sources so we can make appropriate health care decisions for ourselves and families.

  • shllnzlshllnzl Southwestern UtahPosts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭

    @torey I agree with you but it is indeed tough to keep up. I will try to do what I do with political issues: if "they" are trying to reach my emotions, it is time to suspect them of mischief. Our health and our politics should dealt with in a rational manner.

  • kbmbillups1kbmbillups1 Posts: 412 ✭✭✭✭

    Natural health sites have been censored lately by most social media. Pinterest was the first one. They removed the accounts of a lot natural health sites/people for various reasons. That's when I stopped using it. Now, an email server/platform won't let their emails & newsletters through. I'm pretty sure I heard from several of them that they had to find a different email server/platform in order to even send their emails & newsletters. Other social media is removing their accounts, locking their accounts for a number of days, and/or graying out their posts and calling them fake news.

    Seems odd that natural health has been so heavily censored lately. That makes me wonder why?

    Like I said before I don't know any of them that aren't selling something - books, supplements, summits...

    There are a lot of sites/people (natural & others) that I follow and there are things that I agree with and disagree with that they've said/published. I don't think you should just believe what your told. You should think for yourself.

    Guess this has turned into a good conversation after all.

  • kbmbillups1kbmbillups1 Posts: 412 ✭✭✭✭

    I was reading the Private Street Team thread and see that some people were saying that they thought this was a private forum. I thought so too, I googled it on a different browser and see that it's not.

    Guess that's another reason why you want to be careful about what we post.

    Wish I'd have known that all along. I probably wouldn't have disclosed so much about my family or where I live.

  • jodienancarrowjodienancarrow Mid North Coast AustraliaPosts: 656 admin

    On my journey to be a healthier me, I have come across so many people, organisations that sprout information, products and services that I should surely embark on. Sometimes its confusing, sometimes misleading. So many have free webinars ( I couldn't possibly watch all of them) with the possibility of buying the complete series at a huge discount and throw in a free set of steak knives or vegan knives! You have to go with your gut, do some research and ask questions. So this is a great forum for this topic, open and honest commentary.

    By the way, whilst sorting through the myriad of healthy honchos, I found The Grow Network and I'm so pleased I did.

  • LaurieLovesLearningLaurieLovesLearning Moderator Manitoba, Canada 🍁 zone 3, PrairiesPosts: 3,082 admin

    @Jimerson I know that the majority of the TGN forum is public, but I as well understood that the ST part of this site is private. Is there a reason why @kbmbillups1 was able to see that part of the forum on another browser? Is there a glitch or something?

  • LaurieLovesLearningLaurieLovesLearning Moderator Manitoba, Canada 🍁 zone 3, PrairiesPosts: 3,082 admin

    @shllnzl Yes, if something starts playing on your emotions, you have to be extra vigilant. That is a dangerous place to find yourself, because that is when you get more easily caught up in something and clear thinking can be abruptly halted. So...another big red flag.

    There are a lot of emotions running extra high these days, but sadly, emotional manipulation won't end when this virus does.

  • shllnzlshllnzl Southwestern UtahPosts: 1,339 ✭✭✭✭

    I keep hoping that the upside of this terrible time is that people will come out of it more in touch with reality and what really matters in life. Some will learn but I am afraid too many people have gotten addicted to the drama of negative emotions and actions.

    I keep hoping anyway.

  • Marjory WildcraftMarjory Wildcraft ✭✭✭ Posts: 966 admin


    Thanks @shllnzl I'm with you on that sentiment. It has astonished me the way people are addicted to fear. The mainstream media has been pushing that out heavily. I've been fascinated to see the concerted effort and the similarity of all the stories across the NY Times, WSJ, Wahington Post, CNN, Bloomerberg, Fox, etc.

    Regardless if this is a real threat of a virus or not (from what I see yes, it is highly infectous, but not particualy fatal)...

    I do believe tremendous good will come of this, although the immesnse changes will be painful for many.

    Here is a meta physical perspective: I was discussing with a girlfirend about the feminine coming back to eminence on the planet and we realized that this is what is going on. The feminine would not enter with a war: but she would have everyone slow down, go inward, and reflect on what is truely in their hearts. She would have us all realize the value of our relationships. Realize the value of health. Realize the value in what we have already.

    We are living through an epic time. Deep structural changes will come from this. For that, I am very hopeful as the old path was very destructive.

    I had to laugh at a huge sign we all got a while back. When the IRS announced the delay in filing for taxes until July 15th - well that is my definition of TEOTWAWKI (the end of the world as we know it).

  • Megan VenturellaMegan Venturella Posts: 288 ✭✭✭

    @LaurieLovesLearning Thanks for explaining! I'm a real raw milk fan myself, so I hear you. It's hard- there are so many opinions in the natural health community, I've had to learn to really sift through EVERYTHING I read. I believe the founder's life-threatening asthma was completely resolved when he gave up dairy, so obviously he's going to view the information through that lens. I love dairy and milk my own goats! But I really treasure the fact that at least in these communities we are able to have different opinions. It's increasingly rare!

  • JannajoJannajo Ms. Pointe-Claire, QuebecPosts: 173 ✭✭✭
    edited July 15

    @LaurieLovesLearning- I do not agree with you regarding the GMI and the 'good milk' idea, even raw. T Colin Campbell The China Study is the very best one can get showing how harmful is the casein in the milk (let alone the pus, thousands of parts per million), raising a cancer tumor, and withdrawing the casein, cancer tumor shrinks-it is fascinating, imho...All the other 'milks' r much to my liking (&GMI & millions of others)-being inflammatory, the milk, even eggs r taken out of the diet, and perhaps u find this a terrible thing, but poor GMI shld not be blamed for following the very best science out there, Campbell of Cornell, McDougall, Esselstyne, Fuhrman, too many to mention Goldhammer, Ornish, I hate to stop, I love this so very much, no dairy and (horrors) no meat-GMI has some wonderful, new science, germ theory updated, Dr. Kaufmann is also explaining this more perfectly, Pascal is now left far behind, there is NO TEST for any virus, as no virus has been isolated, and this is necessary to set a standard. I am a journalist and researcher, 77, and know what I am talking abt, perhaps unable to express it properly, but I do try...It is the gov't abusing stats for the most part, they have the most agenda to fulfill-especially during this time-GMI is a researcher and a very fine one, passionate and unafraid, which I admire in him, the site is very soft sell I find, only there r summits ALL the time (all for health), but there is a challenge to pick and choose...

    @kbmbillups1 -this is quite the article, thank u very much, it is so very detailed and well researched, Corbett is great also,so many years now I follow these people (Aaron Ginn is new, but thorough): It seems three quarters of Americans-&Canadians? think thus: 'Let Americans be free to be a part of the solution, calling us to a higher civic duty to help those most in need and protect the vulnerable. Not sitting in isolation like losers.'

    @Marjory Wildcraft 'teotwawki' it is! Looks so Indian (which I am), so I like it very much-and tied to the July 15th extension, nice touch, much love.....

This discussion has been closed.