EBV, autoimmunity and herbal remedies
Hi Wonderful community, I have been on the healing journey from autoimmune diseases for 30 years. It was only 10 years ago, that I was actually diagnosed with Hashimotos. I have managed most of my chronic issues with nutrition, supplements, yoga, detoxifying my life from as many things as I can control, trauma release techniques, breathing, meditation and now I am learning about herbs to add them into my healing arsenal. I had a big eye opener this past week, when I received results of some very comprehensive blood tests I did for the first time in 3 years to see what progress I was making. Sadly, my autoimmune numbers came out pretty high and I suspected EBV, so I was tested for it and it seems I have an active EBV infection going on. Of Course my primary who is integrative wants me on a pharmacuetical anti viral for the next month, but my Chinese Medicine practioner believes that I should approach this more gently. All of us agree that there still may be some serious gut issues going on, which I am constantly working on. But my TCM practioner actually believes my body is launching a pretty big attack on the EBV on its own, so I am seeking more advice on anti-viral botanicals and herbals that other people may have tried and have had success with when working on EBV. I am convinced this is not a new virus, but a latent one that has over the years reared its ugly head and wreaked havoc on me from time to time. I am an integrative medicine health coach and so I am always hoping to learn for my own health and for those I help. Thank you for reading and offering your collective wisdom. Namaste, Andrea
Comments
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I have not had EBV so this is not a direct answer to your question but when I read your post my first thoughts were what an amazing and inspiring success story! Of course you have to do what feels right to you but my intuition says this is the first blood test you've done in 3 years. The numbers may have been high at various point during that time as your body was fighting it off on it's own. You've done enough work on yourself that you can probably tell if your body feels different now like something that was working isn't or if this is just part of your healing journey. Do what's right for you but if it was me I'd listen to the TMC and not rush to go on pharmacueticals. Good luck.
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@andrea745 Congratulations on taking charge of your own health care in this manner. I think you are doing all the right things by exploring other alternatives to antivirals pharmaceuticals. This is a link to a study (from 2019) that reviews some of the antivirals that are being suggested for EBV. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6429425/ It is a long and complicated read but this is one of the lines in the abstract: "Although a number of antivirals were proven to inhibit EBV replication in vitro, they had limited success in the clinic and to date no antiviral drug has been approved for the treatment of EBV infections." Conclusions at the end state similar results.
This is a complicated case to be commenting on. However, that being said, there are some herbs that may offer support for your body and assistance in reducing your viral load. I do think you are correct that gut problems could be leading to some of your issues. If you are not able to assimilate food and nutrients properly, this can lead to other health issues or exacerbate existing conditions.
Turmeric will treat systemic inflammation in your body and may increase apoptosis of EBV-infected cells. .
Licorice has antiviral, anti-inflammatory, adaptogen and stomachic properties and induces the synthesis and release of interferon.
Astrafalus Root is an adaptogen with hepaprotective and immunomodulator properties. It is a spleen tonic improving Qi, reduces fatigue, increases appetite and improves digestion.
Medicinal mushrooms are, in general, good for immune modulation. Cordyceps is showing promise at inhibiting EBV replication. Skitake has antiviral properties and activates cellular immunity. Reishi, Chaga and Turkey Tail are all recommended as supplements to assist with EBV.
Beets have shown a high level of antigen activity in studies but the beets alone might not be enough. An extracted supplement may be required.
These suggestions should all be discussed with your health care providers to make sure there are no contraindications with your particular case. I'm sure your TCM doc will have comments on these treatments and can offer more information on some of them than I can.
Another route to take would be to consult with a homeopath. Homeopathy is amazing for treating chronic issues.
Best wishes with your healing journey!
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I went off on another search related to bitters and have come up with some more info for you. This article is discussing CFS which has associations with EVB. It is written by a well-known, very experienced herbalist in my area and includes case studies. http://www.chanchalcabrera.com/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-holistic-herbal-treatment/
Japanese knotweed (Polygonum cuspidatum) and Andrographis (Andrographis paniculata) are both suggested for EBV. Japanese Knotweed roots have been shown to inhibit the EBV cycle. Andrographis inhibits gene transcription.
Just because I am such a big fan of bitters, I would suggest bitters for your gut health. There are so many recipe combinations for bitters, so I would choose one that had dandelion and burdock roots to assist your liver. Yarrow is a bitter with antiviral properties that improves a sluggish liver. Orange peel and ginger would be good additions. Oregon Grape Root is quite bitter and good for the liver and digestion. May be helpful if your stomach issues have anything to do with H. pylori.
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I've had CFS due to EBV for 35 years. I tried many things, in fact that is how I became interested in herbal medicine. I've found that if I keep my intestines moving regularly, take milk thistle for liver support, various combinations for kidney health, take herbs for good sleep (used to be valerian for years, currently taking a blend with skullcap, passionflower vine) and keep my stress under control my symptoms are kept at bay. My biggest issue is making myself sleep enough and keeping stress down (Type A personality). I believe mine started with the second pregnancy. My job was over the top stressful. I went into labor at 4 1/2 months and was put on bed rest. Spent most of the rest of the pregnancy doing little to nothing. There was a big peach orchard next door and one day they went through spraying some kind of chemicals that made me ill. My immune system became compromised from too many assaults. I had never had a case of it before but over a year later my levels were quite high. I was retested in a month; the doctor said if my levels came down it was an active case but if they stayed that high it was Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. They did stay high, almost exactly the same levels. I've not been tested in years but I know it is still with me because if I don't behave it rears it's head. So I try to behave (so hard!) 😋
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Wow @andrea745, that's quite a journey! I have CFS and that's how I got all 'health-nutty', too.
I've tried all sorts of things but recently heard a series of talks by Niki Gratrix about the importance of strengthening other parts of our system, and that that can make the difference. (The talks are no longer available, but if you can find anything by her go for it.) She talks about how we are actually three selves combined into one, the biochemical self, the psychological-neurological self, and the energetic self. I don't quite understand it all, but she points out that all the biochemical (ie herbs, supplements, food) work in the world will not succeed if there's a serious issue in one of the other aspects. Something to consider, and from what you wrote her approach might be a very good fit for you.
I agree with you @seeker.nancy - Central Texas about keeping my intestines moving. That is huge for me. And sleeping lots, and keeping stress down.
Thanks for the list @torey I regularly take turmeric (in a lovely latte) and feel better after beets. I've also experimented with licorice, the DZ Dutch salty licorice to be exact, and it works beautifully while it lasts and then I crashed. At least I now have a helpful option when I need to be awake and alert. :) And thanks for the CFS link, too. I had been planning to destroy our Japanese knotweed next week, but maybe not....
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@andrea745 Magnolia is another wonderful herb for your toolbox. She's a great herb, cuddling you in her arms with a loving strength while telling you "you're going to be alright, you are strong."
The best advice I could give from one autoimmune (4 issues) person to another is to gather a team: a great homeopath, herbalist, chiropractor, acupuncturist and physician. Never forget that it's your body and your decision to follow (or not) their guidance. You have a great responsibility to learn for yourself what works and what doesn't. Don't believe in anything that doesn't give you hope.
Try searching "spiritual meaning thyroid issue" to see if anything resonates with you. Make sure to laugh, pat yourself on the back, don't watch the news, see yourself in happiness and don't fear the unknown.
Send me a message if you'd like to chat any time.
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I have been recovering from reactivated EBV. Commonly recommended herbs are cat's claw, lemon balm, and olive leaf extract. Check each for their potential side effects to select the best one for you. I take olive leaf extract daily, along with 2 TBSPs of coconut oil (or you could take monolaurin), l-lysine, vitamin C, elderberry, colloidal silver, ashwaganda, and a bunch of other herbs that aren't necessarily for the EBV.
Try quercetin for inflammation in addition to the turmeric.
Chronic EBV in Ayurveda is often excess Vata and Pitta. Reduce stress, eat a Vata-Pitta pacifying diet, and add gentle exercise like qigong or gentle/restorative yoga.
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PS Black cumin seed oil is a new EBV remedy I just read about. Haven't tried it myself yet. Note, this is not an essential oil.
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Thank you @annbeck62 . I guess I really need to hear that. I have a feeling as you said it has been an underlying cause all along and I have been, for the most part, very successful in staying healthy. I still want to keep upping my game... so I will use my intuition. X0X0
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Dear @torey You are so kind to offer such wonderful wisdom. I printed out the information and will be sharing it with my TCM. Interesting I have been on most of these except for astragalus and concentrated beets. Since I am on no medicine, I can add these as I go along. It is so reassuring that I have been on the right path and I agree with the comment made by Ann Beck that I might have had the EBV throughout my 30 years of autoimmune issues, but no one thought to test for it before so is could have been the culprit all along and I just might need to up my game again as I am continually challenged to do in this journey. Namaste, Andrea
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Hi @stephanie447 I love your suggestions. I am a full time yoga teacher trained in Ayurveda and I know I have an excess of Vata and on occasion Pitta, so my personal yoga practices are getting gentler and gentler. I am now trained to be a certified Restorative Yoga teacher because that is what I need more of. I teach Yin every week and that practice works so well for me. I will check out some of the herbal suggestions you have made as well. I know I do not do well with ashwaganda. I have tried many times before. I have many essential oils including lemon balm. I am just starting on l-lysine, will check out cats claw, olive leaf extract. I cook everything in coconut oil and I used to add MCT oil to my smoothie. Maybe I should start doing that again. I would love to stay in touch with you about your EBV journey, so we can share notes.... Thank you. Namaste, Andrea
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Thank you, Andrea, yes, we can absolutely stay in touch!
An important note: I was talking about the HERB lemon balm, not the essential oil. Do not take any essential oils internally! You can take lemon balm THE HERB as a tincture, however. :-)
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No @stephanie447 I do not use an essential oils internally unless it is prescribed by a knowledgable certified aromatherapist trained in medicinal uses (i.e. like in France). In fact, I am always telling my students and clients that I do not recommend internal usage and that puts me out of line with many essential oil advocates. I was wondering if I could use Lemon Balm essential oil topically in any way to be supportive? I bought a bottle during the last year and have not quite figured out how to get some use of it. I use many other oils topically, most diluted with carrier oils. On occasion I use Frankincense and Lavender neat.
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Dear @Annie Kate , @seeker.nancy - Central Texas @torey Such wonderful wisdom here. I do have a team that I trust and mostly I trust my own ability to learn and change and experiment with myself if things are not working. I am a full time yoga teacher and certified health coach so right now I am getting certified in restorative yoga, because for me, the nervous system and adequate rest are still the frontiers that need some support. Even my wording has to change... I dont want to work on my nervous system, I want to learn to let go of all the work to allow my nervous system to rest. I am taking most of the herbs you all recommend, but since I am only starting my herbal journey they are not homegrown... some are in tinctures, some are in supplements. I do research all the companies that I am purchasing from to make sure they are more than just marketing claims. I am always tweaking my diet. I have now eliminated eggs for three months to check on how it affects my inflamation levels. I love bitters and change out the types I am using. I do juice almost every day with organic vegetables, fresh herbs and fruit. And I finally did a stool test to see if I can more accurately get a handle on what might be causing my leaky gut. I am the cleanest eater I know (Type A lol) I have now come to firmly believe that the EBV virus has been in my system for years and that COVID19 fear might have been the trigger. Let's keep this conversation going. Thank you all again. Namaste, Andrea
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I just came across this pre-recorded webinar by KP Khalsa on Healing Viral Chronic Fatigue, Herpes and Epstein Barr. I haven't watched it yet but KP always has good information.
https://internationalintegrative.com/healing-viral-chronic-fatigue-herpes-and-epstein-barr/
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@andrea745 There is a series of free talks (with an upsell at the end, most likely) by Alex Howard, a guy who has done a ton of work on these sorts of things: https://reset.alexhoward.com/videos They will only be available for a few days.
It's essentially about how our minds and bodies interact via a maladaptive stress response, how this leads to disease, and how one can calm this physiological response so that our bodies will be able to focus on healing.
I watched the earlier version of these talks, bought the course he promoted at the end, and am benefiting hugely. He is Niki Gratrix's colleague (the person I mentioned earlier in this thread).
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Thank you @Annie Kate I realized recently that my focus is now on my nervous system response more than changing any more physical things in my life.. I think that will be the next big frontier for me. I am studying Polyvagal theory and Restorative Yoga and I am very involved as a HeartMath certified Stress management clinician. So I am going to practice more what I preach. In other words, take more time to care for myself even while taking care of my clients. X0X0
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@torey I love KP Khalsa's stuff. Thank you for sharing.
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There are a number of programs about this that teach "limbic system retraining" - three are available online:
* Gupta Program
* DNRS
* Vital Side
Additionally, the Lightning Process is taught in the UK. Last I checked they did not have an online version. DNRS was allegedly based off of the Lightning Process.
I have enrolled in Vital Side, and have only had a taster of Gupta with their free sample. Gupta also looks good, but since she offered a big coronavirus discount, I signed up for Vital Side. I would highly recommend Vital Side. The young woman who teaches it (Lindsay) overcame chronic Lyme. She is very knowledgeable and has a nice, peaceful energy about her. She personally interacts via her forums. Out of the three online programs, hers is the least commercialized program and probably the one I'd recommend simply for her being so accessible and genuine.
I'm probably going to set up my own program at some point. The main thing about all of these is to reduce the chronic stress response. Doing regular yoga and meditation could be enough, provided it's not stressful "workout" yoga or the wrong type of meditation/pranayama.
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With my background and recent certification as a HeartMath clinician for stress and anxiety, I will probably come up with my own take on this as well. I have signed up for so many programs over the last few years that I feel like there is very little someone else can teach me. It is just me taking the time to do what I know and share with my audience. Let me know what you get out of the Vital Side program @stephanie447 .... Maybe we could talk at some point and collaborate on some programs together. Namaste, Andrea
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@torey I watched the KP Khalsa interview and like usual he was so clear and had great advice. I wrote down a few of the herbs he was suggesting that I frankly had not heard of before. My only complain was that they did not spell out the herbs so I had to guess at their spelling. I will look them up based on what I thought I heard him say lol. Thanks again for leading me in that direction.
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Homeopathy is excellent for this. If you're on facebook look for 247Homeopathy. It's a service where you can talk to a homeopath for very cheap for acute situations. Just posting there will likely get you responses as to who to talk to. This isn't really a do it yourself job. The dosing is quite client specific. NAET can also repair the immune system so your body can get rid of it on its own like nature intended. www.naet.com. I got rid of MCS with this so it's pretty effective.
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Welcome to TGN @Sharie. Are you a homeopath?
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Yes, @andrea745 the trick is to actually apply what we learn. That is a battle and I am making little reminder checklists for myself.
@stephanie447 The Optimum Health Clinic in the UK does the same sort of thing for chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, chronic Lyme, etc. I didn't know about the other programs. Oh well, I will stick with what I have for now until I've mastered it.
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Hi and welcome @Sharie. Overcoming MCS is a huge deal. Good for you! :)
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No. I'm unofficially my own doctor and now and again I come across something that can help others. I've been using homeopathy for many years. I do trauma elimination work and it can be very helpful for those people I can't work with like clinically depressed and suicidal people. I've used it for everything from shingles to pneumonia to shock and insect bites and stings and even severe nerve pain.
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Hi @Sharie it is nice to meet you and thank you for that great piece of information. I have found that our nervous system is, in my opinion, the final frontier in any healing journey, so the work you are doing with people with trauma is so important. Thank you for contributing your insight to this question.
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