Need Your Keen Eyes and Knowledge BEFORE I lease this land for growing

Sara W
Sara W Posts: 35 ✭✭✭

Hi folks. Im in the process of considering a lease on just over 5 acres of land. The picture uploaded shows the far*RIVER* side of the boundary. If you zoom in on the pic on the right, it has the motorbike path to the pump station clearly shown, however the soil seems to be potholing and is very grey and looks dead?

I am not sure what may be causing this and while I wouldnt be planting on it, is there a negative issue happpneing there that could become a big problem. As far as I am aware the area doesnt wash out over Spring with the flush of water coming from higher up in the mountain ranges. It looks to me like dryland saline issues? If so, how do I stop that creeping, would the rest of the land be high in salt also? Im over 4000km away from it and my Brother, who has sent me this after searching for a possible lease, hasnt a clue. is NOT a farmer. Any help welcome


Comments

  • Monek Marie
    Monek Marie Posts: 3,539 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2021

    @Sara W.

    The grey areas concern me as to what is causing it and if it will get worse. I would take some of this grey soil to a conservation district office or extension office if you have one near by and get their opinion..

    I would also talk to neighbors or the nearest town and have lunch or dinner and just ask about the area and see if anyone has any ideas or knows the land.

    What is the water like? How far way would you be planting from your water source. What are you high temps and low temps?

    If you can check or have someone check the shrubs and trees and see if they look healthy

    These are the first questions I would ask.

    If it is dryland saline issues these links may help:


    Good luck with your decision

  • VermontCathy
    VermontCathy Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's impossible to say from a distance, but my judgment based on just one photo is that this land is not very fertile, and is probably mostly rock, gravel, sand, and some silt from the river.

    That image is very reminescient of the land I see in Vermont, all through the Green Mountains. And there are hardly any commercial farms here, just market growers who sell on a very small scale. Large-scale farms in Vermont are nearly always pasture for animals, especially cows grazing for cheesemaking.

    If you want to use it for pasture, you'll likely be very successful. If you want to grow vegetables here, it's likely that you will have to do a lot of work on soil amendments to get it to the point that it will grow a good crop.

    Your best bet would be to have your brother take a few soil samples from different locations around the property and send them off to the local state agricultural agencies for testing and analysis. They will be able to talk you the exact soil composition, including but not limited to saline levels, and how much of what amendemnts will need to be added.

    I would absolutely not lease the land without that soil test information.

  • LaurieLovesLearning
    LaurieLovesLearning Posts: 7,573 admin

    My first questions are:

    Where is this land located? What is its approximate growing zone? Why is the land owner not wanting to use it themselves?

    To me, these look like small sinkholes, and it suspiciously looks to me like water has flowed over this grey area at some point, either exposing or dropping pretty large sediment/stone/gravel.

    In my area, it is very difficult and often impossible to reclaim alkali land. The best a person can do here that I am aware of is to plant plants round the perimeter that can tolerate & take up salt. Perhaps old manure can be used, but being by water & a concern of invasive weeds might be a concern where this land is.

    Plants here would include willow and then that willow would have to stay put and not be removed again. I think there are some grasses that can tolerate saline soil f it isn't too bad.

    I have not researched it, partly because we would never consider land where this is already an issue. Without any action, alkali land will continue to creep into the better land and ruin it.

    Someone here might be able to offer better, further observations or advice.

  • Torey
    Torey Posts: 5,679 admin

    Absolutely do a soil test! And a water test! What is the water in the river like? Could you use it for irrigation?

    Difficult to tell from this pic but even though you have indicated that it is not regularly flooded, I have to agree with @LaurieLovesLearning. This looks like either exposure from flooding or overburden that has been deposited via flooding.

    The overall flatness of the valley indicates to me that this was likely a lake bottom or very wide river at one point in history. The current river is just the remnants of the larger water body. I would want to know what is further upriver. Is there a large lake or hydro-electric dam? Is there a chemical or other industrial company upriver that could be polluting the soil? Why is there a pumping station? That, too, could indicate flooding has occurred in the past and the pumping station is there to alleviate that concern. Or that water is being pumped for industrial purposes.

  • VermontCathy
    VermontCathy Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Backing up a level, thinking about the general question of how to find and lease land, rather than this specific piece...

    In her book _The Resilient Gardener_, Carol Deppe writes about her own quest to lease land on which to grow most of her own food. I'll quote her below, but to cut to the chase, her advice is to search the broader region in which you want to farm or garden, choose a number of the properties with the best soil available, and _only then_ approach the owners and ask them if they will offer a lease.

    Carol: "We obtained a long-term lease on prime soil just a five-minute drive from home. Our approach was simple. We used the USDA County Soil Survey maps to identify every piece of prime agriculture land close to home. Then we put flies in the boxes of all the people located on that land. 'Wanted: long-term lease on 2 - 5 acres for production of organic grains, vegetables, and seed crops.'

    "We eliminated Class II soils that had a high water table in winter, weren't well drained, were subject to flooding, were too shallow, and so on."

    You may not have as much good agricultural land nearby as Carol had, and your criteria may need to be different, but her approach still makes sense. Figure out what the land you lease must offer, then look at soil survey maps to find land that meets your criteria, then approach the owners of many such plots and offer a leasing arrangment. Don't start by seeing land that is available and then hope it will work. It may be available for a good reason.

  • Sara W
    Sara W Posts: 35 ✭✭✭

    Thank you so so much!! I was going with my gut and erring on the side of caution. I wouldnt sign anything at all uness soil testing was done as well as a few other bits n pieces. There is only 5 acres atm free. It is village land and no one is farming on it, becasue everyone is either too old now or the younger ones have left to go to the big cities of Delhi, Mumbai etc.

    Its in the mountains of Uttrakand, India.. I will be speaking to my Brother in the morning. i FEEL WE MAY JUST SKIP THIS PLOT. Your answers have swayed me in a positive sense to let it go. I will however pass on the comments as the elders want to pass this land later on to the next generation and so assessing and fixing any issues now will at least give them something usable in the future.


    *Im not Indian. My Indian Brothers family unofficially adopted me and mine, many years ago. So if it got a bit confusing I am sorry.

  • VermontCathy
    VermontCathy Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I didn't realize it was in India. Wow, it looks so much like New England!

    You may not have the same level of Soil Survey data available there, but there is probably some kind of government-supported soil testing available.

    Leasing farmland is not a time to go with your gut. This is science. :-)

  • RustBeltCowgirl
    RustBeltCowgirl Posts: 1,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Sara W. We get it. There's "blood" family and "heart" family. I tend to freak people out when I talk about my "sisters", especially when they know that I'm an only child.

  • Sara W
    Sara W Posts: 35 ✭✭✭

    There is most likely soil survey data. Getting it on the other hand... is akin to writing War and Peace. The Stae Gov Soil tesing Lab, has links that go to absolutely nowhere. This doesnt surprise me 1 bit. I love India.. I really do. but my brain implodes every time any Gov office is involved. I have found out since my original post this morning, that the pumping stn is for the small village just up from the plot of land. No Industiral issues up the valley ( almost too remote... almost) I found an independant soil testing service that may come out.. we shall see. I would like to have that done at least for the elders. So they can at least have the info for their family.

    I really appreciate all the input and help xxxx