Need help with extreme muscle pain

shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

I am reaching out to the TGN group, hoping for help with my husband's problems.

Over a month ago, my husband got the Johnson and Johnson COVID vaccine. He came home complaining that the shot was given too high up on his arm and his shoulder was hurting. That night he had a fever, body aches and racing pulse. Symptoms continued for part of the next day.

Later he noticed that his upper arm was hurting, then his other arm. He thought maybe the lymph nodes in his groin were involved; then his hips started to hurt. Right now, he has a resting pain level of 2, any exertion brings the pain to an 8. His whole body feels like he over exerted during exercise and muscles are stiff.

He made a doctor appointment where blood was drawn to test for polymyalgia rheumatica. I assume the doctor tested for general inflammation and rheumatoid arthritis factors. The blood tests came back normal. He is still waiting for x-ray orders for his arms and hips. The doctor told him to take four ibuprophen tablets several times a day for pain and that helps to dull the pain.

I don't expect the doctors to figure this one out. It could be some other autoimmune reaction, previously unknown Lyme disease, or ???

I am currently trying arnica linament with limited hope.

Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance for your help.



  • Torey
    Torey Posts: 5,408 admin

    That's a long time to be in pain. I'm surprised that the doc recommended so much ibuprofen. Watch for any digestive issues.

    There are a few homeopathic remedies recommended for pain following vaccination. Thuja is one of the top listed and probably the most commonly available. Hope that helps.

  • judsoncarroll4
    judsoncarroll4 Posts: 5,286 admin

    Sounds like an auto-immune reaction.... that makes it tricky. Fern poultices may help, maybe a pinch of tobacco in a bath, both for pain. To calm things down, maybe Michael Moore's advice... here are my notes:

    RIMARY TREATMENT PROTOCOLS Chronic Inflammation, Auto-immune disorders, Allergies

    Prepare a tonic, with emphasis on tea herbs when possible.

    Recommend a mineral tea, to be taken 2-3 times a day, prepared fresh each time, using available combinations of Alfalfa, Red Clover, Nettle Leaf, Mormon Tea, Oat Herb or Dandelion Leaf.

    If there is chronic mucosal congestion, add to the above, Oxe Eye Daisy (Leucanthemum), Canadian Fleabane (Conyza), Tickseed (Bidens), Horsetail (Equisetum), Yerba Mansa Leaves (Anemopsis) or Pearly Everlasting (Anaphalis)

    If there is chronic intestinal congestion, add Canadian Fleabane (Conyza), Walnut Leaves (Juglans), Erodium, Sumach Leaves/Berries (Rhus), Jojoba Leaves (Simmondsia) or Fireweed (Epilobium).

    If the skin or joints are the primary reactive tissues, add Betony or Hedge Nettle (Stachys spp.), Desert Lavender (Hyptis), Self Heal (Prunella), Rosemary, Basil, Lemon Balm (Melissa), Agastache spp., Yerba Mansa Leaves (Anemopsis), Chamomile or Pineapple Weed (Matricaria). Ginger Root may be used if it does not aggravate the skin or digestion.

    If the lungs are the primary reactive organs, add Oxe Eye Daisy (Leucanthemum), Horsetail (Equisetum) or Pearly Everlasting (Anaphalis), Cudweed (Gnaphallium spp.), Yerba Santa (Eriodictyon), Horsetail (Equisetum), Yerba Mansa Leaves (Anemopsis) or Desert Lavender (Hyptis).

    If the liver is the primary reactive organ, add Pearly Everlasting (Anaphalis), Cudweed (Gnaphallium spp.), Pussy Toes (Antennaria spp.), Agrimony Herb, Dandelion Leaf, Erodium, Rosemary or Basil. 


    Vitamin C (1-2 grams daily).

    Vitamin E (between 400 and 800 i.u .daily).

    Magnesium (usually 500 mg daily).

    Selenium (around 50 mcg daily).

    Chromium chloride or picolinate (100-200 mcgs daily).

    Zinc (25-50 mgs daily...not to used concurrent with NSAIDs).

    Omega 3 oils (fish oils, 1-3 grams a day, Flax Oil, 1-2 tablespoons a day).


    Chaparral (Larrea) as a tincture, 30-60 drops a day.

    Milk Thistle (Silybum), 3-6 capsules a day, 20% Silymarin, 1 a day.

    Mahonia as a tincture, 30-60 drops a day.

    Turmeric (Curcuma), 4-8 capsules a day, Curcumin 95%, 2-3 capsules a day.

    Licorice Root (Glycyrrhiza), 4-6 capsules a day, 20% Glycyrrhizin, 1-2 a day.

    Ginkgo 24/6 extract 50-200 mgs a day.

    Green Tea 1-3 cups a day

    Andrographis paniculata (respiratory or liver) 15% Andrographolides, 1 capsule a day

    Coleus forskohlii as a tincture, 60-90 drops a day, 2-4% forskohlin, 2- 4 capsules day (except with low blood pressure or with beta blockers)

    Boswellia serrata, 60% boswellic acid, 2-3 capsules a day

    Astragalus membranaceus as tincture, 60-120 drops a day, as FE, 30 drops a day, as capsule, 3-4 a day

    Desert Willow (Chilopsis) as strong decoction, 3-4 ounces a day, as tincture, 60-90 drops a day, as capsule, 3-4 a day.

    FLAVONOIDS Blueberries or Huckleberries, Prickly Pear fruit, Cactus Flowers, Penstemon Flowers, Ocotillo Flowers, Desert Willow Flowers, Service Berries, Salal Berries, Rose Hips, Elder Berries, Aralia Berries, Mulberries.

  • kbmbillups1
    kbmbillups1 Posts: 1,276 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have you looked up SIRVA? I heard someone talk about this the other day - when vaccines are given too high on the shoulder. I wish I could remember who it was so I could share but it escapes me right now.

  • jowitt.europe
    jowitt.europe Posts: 1,349 admin

    @shllnzl Seconding what @judsoncarroll4 wrote about fern poultices for external use, I could also recommend hay flower poultices. They are used as a pain remedy in the Alpine area, but might be very unusual to some. The description is in the recent book that Judson and me wrote. Johann Künzle The idea is that you put 20-40 different herbs (the best is a natural mixture from a natural blossoming meadow) into a linen or cotton sack, heat it on steam, check that it is not too hot, put on affected areas and keep covered with warm cloth until it gets cool. It sounds somehow complicated... or just taking a bath in hay flower bath and then stay in warm bed.

    my husband cured his lumbago with a sack of moss. We put moss into a linen sack, heated it in the oven until it was pleasantly warm and put on the affected area. I tied it with a wollen scarf and he stayed in bed under a warm blanket.

    Well all these are natural remedies for “natural” rheumatism. Your case is different.

  • shllnzl
    shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks to all of you for the information and honest conversation.

    @monica197 Yes, it looks like the shot was a trigger, at minimum. Of course, after he got the shot I read that the government temporarily shut down the J&J factory for filth and contamination issues; they also had someone mixing up wrong ingredients. In a normal world, we would be able to get tons of information on the vaccines, but any real discussion of the subject is being censored worldwide. I no longer get vaccines myself because I do not trust the vaccine makers.

    @kbmbillups1 We did research SIRVA, finding out that doctors seldom recognize this syndrome. The doctor didn't mention it and my husband insists that his problem is in muscles, not joints. I lack confidence in the doctor regarding vaccine issues because doctors are avoiding vaccine issues before they too are cancelled or suffer professionally. We are still waiting on the x-ray people to make arrangements.

    @torey I was surprised about the doctor's OTC medicine advice also. I took that kind of dosage in my youth for extreme pain but learned to do otherwise. Doctors used to give prescription ibuprophen in 800mg dosage that at least did not dissolve all at once. It bothers me that I am more conservative than the doctor.

    @judsoncarroll4 Thanks for all that info. My husband will become weak kneed at the prospect of taking all that stuff. Maybe I can talk him into more tea where I can add some of the herbs. His willingness to try my herbal solutions is improving slightly over time.

  • judsoncarroll4
    judsoncarroll4 Posts: 5,286 admin

    The basic tea is really just 4-5 ingredients, and whatever you can find of those - you don't have to use them all. The others are like pick a couple from each category. You'll notice there is a lot of crossover between the specific recommendations, so those herbs that keep showing up are the ones I'd use first.

  • shllnzl
    shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is an update from conventional medicine:

    Blood work showed nothing.

    X-rays show slight calcification in one shoulder, indicates an old injury.

    One hip shows the beginnings of arthritis.

    The doctor is referring him to physical therapy although my husband sees no point in going. Mild injuries or arthritis do not cause whole body muscle stiffness or this level of pain. Missing from the diagnosis and patient records is any reference to vaccine triggering these problems, whether infection or autoimmune.

    I have lots of plant based medicines to try and homeopathy as well. This is a chance for my husband to change over to the "Green Side" with natural medicines.

  • Torey
    Torey Posts: 5,408 admin

    Despite the fact that severe muscle pain is not one of the side effects that the vaccine manufacturers have noted or recorded, doesn't mean that the vaccine wasn't a trigger to initiate this type of reaction. Everyone is different. As this is the only attributable difference I would suggest that that vaccine was indeed the trigger for whatever this is.

    Rarely, if ever, do doctors or any of the main stream practitioners like to admit that any symptoms are the result of any vaccine. But homeopathically, that is the way that I would treat it. I think many of the practitioners I know would feel the same way. Sometimes we are able to find a remedy made from the vaccine itself and we can give that to counter the side effects. Like cures like. But it is very difficult to get remedies made from new vaccines. So there isn't one for any of the current COVID vaccines. So then we go back to the general remedies for the after effects of vaccinations. As I mentioned, Thuja is one of the most commonly given. If that doesn't work, then a homeopath might be able to find one more suited to his individual symptoms.

  • annbeck62
    annbeck62 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭✭

    It does raise an eyebrow that the doctor didn't even suspect a vaccine reaction. That is the first thing I thought of. Kinesiology could be a really helpful tool to determine which of the natural protocols his body might best respond to.

  • ashleyvann
    ashleyvann Posts: 5 ✭✭✭

    Try wintergreen essential oil. (Mix in a roller bottle about 1/4 wintergreen and the rest an oil of your choice (I use jojoba or seasame seed oil) I use a roller bottle since you are not to consume this oil so it is a careful way of not getting it on your hands.

    Also for pain , you can try DSMO and MSM.

  • Torey
    Torey Posts: 5,408 admin

    @shllnzl I have contacted Helios Homeopathic Pharmacy and they currently have made up remedies from each of the vaccines; Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZenica. They are being used to counter any side effects of the vaccines.

  • LaurieLovesLearning
    LaurieLovesLearning Posts: 7,218 admin

    My first thought about the cause as well. They won't officially recognize any problems with this vaccine after the initial 30 minutes have passed, at least this is what a Canadian doctor who is advocating for his patients has said. He says that it is very frustrating as he wants to help them.

    Please let us know if you can find something that helps your husband. I know that he is not the only one suffering right now and posting any results here is likely to help someone else searching for answers.

  • shllnzl
    shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ashleyvann @torey @LaurieLovesLearning Thanks for the great info.

    Current status: I thought I had provided an update before now, sorry about that.

    Three weeks ago, I took my husband to an urgent care, very stiff with pain level 9. This doctor recognized the issue, probably helped by the tears in my husband's eyes. This doctor agreed this was a vaccine reaction and reported it to VAERS. I thanked that doctor for listening.

    Hubby was put on short term prednisone. He reverted back to normal under that treatment. He got a second prescription with a weaker version of the drug and did okay too. Unfortunately, once the drug goes away, his symptoms return. We do not want him on this drug long term.

    He goes back to the doctor this week for further help. I am keeping your advice for possible later use.

    Interesting fact: His doctor said the CDC called him about the VAERS report and told the doctor that they were only seeking adverse reactions that killed the patient!

  • LaurieLovesLearning
    LaurieLovesLearning Posts: 7,218 admin
    edited June 2021

    @shllnzl I am glad that he was able to get some relief and with a lesser drug. I hope that you can find something more along a natural line.

    I am glad that you found a good doctor. Diagnosing something that is not a popular diagnoses and goes against the system takes a lot of guts right now because there are certainly negative consequences that can affect that doctor's status.

    I have heard things along the lines of what the CDC told the doctor. I believe that is certainly not proper especially since they do know better.

    I understand that many, even the young, are having big problems post-vac. A young person that I know fully believes her new and supposedly lifelong (I just don't trust diagnoses of life long...many aren't that if treated by natural means & diet) condition is a result of covid two months before her diagnoses, but ignored the fact that the vaccine she got a week before might actually have caused the problem...because the doctor told her so and the vaccine is "safe". It is very frustrating.

  • marjstratton
    marjstratton Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭✭

    @shllnzl I certainly hope that your husband is able to find relief and hopefully healing from his trauma. That is totally ridiculous that the CDC would tell a conscientious doctor that they aren't interested in such severe consequences of the vaccine.

  • Torey
    Torey Posts: 5,408 admin

    @shllnzl I'm very glad that you were able to get a diagnosis. It is awful when docs can't find anything wrong, yet you are still suffering. I'm not at all surprised at the reaction of the CDC but it is very frustrating to those who would like to get the true results of vaccine side effects.

  • frogvalley
    frogvalley Posts: 675 ✭✭✭✭

    Months after an injury has occurred, I've had success taking Aconite once every three hours and then following that with another remedy if needed. It's like I didn't take care of the original assault properly, so I had to go back and settle that.

  • annbeck62
    annbeck62 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭✭

    @shllnzl it's so absurd that the CDC isn't interested in a severe reaction. In my opinion that's not good science and it's not being truthful.

  • shllnzl
    shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @annbeck62 I no longer have any trust for CDC, FDA, FBI or DOJ. Recent events have reflected badly on them.

  • annbeck62
    annbeck62 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭✭

    @shllnzl I couldn't agree more.

  • stephanie447
    stephanie447 Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    How is your husband doing? Has anything helped?

  • stephanie447
    stephanie447 Posts: 404 ✭✭✭

    I'm actually saving this post and putting it in the binder where I keep my herbal monographs. Thanks for this detailed info.

  • Annie Kate
    Annie Kate Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭

    @shllnzl Sometimes similar results to prednisone (with less side effects) can be gotten from vit C (large doses) and Vit B5 (pantothenic acid). I suggest to see a naturopath/nutritional healer; they should have something they can do. If you cannot find a healer quickly, this is what I would do: 5-10 g vit C (work up to it slowly over a few days or diarrhea will result, and taper off very gradually after he feels better) in divided doses 3-4 x a day and 100-200 mg pantothenic acid with each vit C dose (except the evening one), as well as a B 50 (or higher)-stress tablet/day, preferably divided up (except not at the evening dose of vit C). This is potentially serious and his body should be given what is needed to heal asap. And best is to get a professional, but if that is going to take some time, do this while you are waiting. It is quite safe but also can have a massive positive impact.

    Since these things work on the stress response system, anything that reduces stress levels felt in the body may also help. This is just a guess, but I would also try Epsom salts baths or MgCl spray, warmth from the sun, avoiding sugar and other inflammatory substances, relaxation techniques, and fanatically-excellent nutrition--whatever is possible to give his body what it needs. But, again, the best is to see a professional naturopath or nutritional healer.

    (The above info comes from years of working in the tradition of Adele Davis etc.)

  • shllnzl
    shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stephanie447 @Annie Kate

    Thanks for your continued concern and help.

    My husband is still on prednisone, but at a much lower dose. His pain moves around in his body. I have persuaded him to take lots of vitamins, but he is so far unwilling to leave his regular doctor. He did try some extra Vit C, but said it didn't help. (I still wonder if his dosing with Vit C before and after the vaccine kept this situation from being worse, like paralysis.)

    I am keeping all of these recommendations handy in case if/when he is willing to try them. In the meantime, I am working to keep us eating healthy.

    Need I mention that his problems only reinforce my original decision not to get the vaccine?

  • Ruth Ann Reyes
    Ruth Ann Reyes Posts: 539 admin

    Before FB deleted the "jab" reaction group, I saw SEVERAL healthy folks post about how it triggered an underlying auto-immune disease! In several cases, MS!?

    I think that if it were me, I'd follow a strict natural auto-immune protocol - from diet, exercise, to supplements in hopes this clears it up over time!

    I'm so sorry this happened to you two! Sending you virtual hugs and prayers!

  • shllnzl
    shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Ruth Ann Reyes Thank you for your kind words. He has made a lot of small changes based on my advice, but he has not reached my stage of herbal awareness yet.

    He is working out as much as he can and taking his vitamins.

    Let us all hope this vaccine madness calms down.

  • AdrienneHew
    AdrienneHew Posts: 93 ✭✭✭

    @shllnzl Has he tried high dose niacin? I've been using it for something totally unrelated to Covid, but this doc says that using high doses along with glutathione and NAC may help remove the vaccine from the body. Actually, he is confident that it will remove all the nanoparticles -- everything. That's probably the case in the J&J shot that I don't think replicates in quite the same way as the two big ones.

    My daughter is supposed to go to New Zealand for college as they were not pushing the shot. Then recently they started a hard campaign. Deaths shot up immediately. They had about 1000 cases and 25 deaths total until then which is why Jacinda Ardern had decided that they didn't have a dire need for it and passed when their turn came up. AND they were living 100% normally. Now they are in a state of lockdown.

  • Annie Kate
    Annie Kate Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭

    @AdrienneHew Thank you for that. It is so important to have ways of removing the harm!

  • Annie Kate
    Annie Kate Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭

    @Ruth Ann Reyes For dealing with autoimmune disease, Terry Wahl has a protocol that helps with MS and other autoimmune diseases. She's looking for people interested in doing her protocol as part of a research group, so that would reduce the cost.

    Perhaps vaccine-triggered autoimmune disease is a different kind of thing, but most autoimmune diseases are triggered by something that was beyond the body's capacity to deal with.

  • shllnzl
    shllnzl Posts: 1,810 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @AdrienneHew Thanks for the information. I am keeping all this info available to try later if necessary.